A Conversation with Melissa Kirsch

A thoughtful conversation on how to live with intention, curiosity, and intellectual rigor across a lifetime, this dialogue from the University of Chicago Graham School brings together Melissa Kirsch and Peggy Mason to explore what it means to pay attention to our lives in a meaningful way. In this wide-ranging discussion, Melissa Kirsch reflects on writing, observation, and the evolving nature of purpose, while Peggy Mason guides a conversation grounded in inquiry, reflection, and the values of lifelong learning. Framed by Dean Seth Green’s introduction to the Graham School’s mission, the conversation situates personal growth within a broader intellectual tradition—one that extends beyond the classroom and across all stages of life. Together, they examine how we make sense of our experiences, how attention shapes understanding, and how thoughtful engagement with the world can lead to deeper fulfillment. This conversation is an invitation to think more carefully, live more deliberately, and remain open to discovery. Chapters: 00:00 – Welcome and introductions 03:20 – What does the Good List actually mean? 06:45 – The Good List is not an escape from hard news 08:35 – Does joy have to come from achievement? 10:17 – The joy is in the process, not the goal 16:10 – Why Christmas songs are all a little sad 20:29 – The case for melancholy 22:33 – Current self versus future self 28:43 – Gratitude is more complicated than it looks 33:44 – On procrastination: scheduling play before everything else 37:02 – Audience questions: turmoil, tedium, and the happiness thermostat 43:21 – Closing thoughts About the Speakers Melissa Kirsch is a writer at The New York Times, where she hosts The Good List, a weekly newsletter of recommendations and inspirations for living a more joyful and meaningful life, and writes The Morning newsletter on Saturdays. Before joining The Times, she was the editor in chief of Lifehacker. She is also the author of “The Girl’s Guide.” Peggy Mason is a professor in the Department of Neurobiology at the University of Chicago. After twenty-five years of researching the cellular mechanisms of pain modulation, her research interests have shifted to the biological basis of empathy and helping. A self-described “neuroevangelist,” she is thrilled for opportunities to teach neurobiology to interested audiences of non-specialists. Her efforts in this realm include reaching tens of thousands of people through her Twitter (@NeuroMOOC), her blog, and open online courses through Coursera. This event is hosted by the University of Chicago Graham School. Learn more about Graham School events here: https://graham.uchicago.edu/events/ The Graham School is a one-of-a-kind intellectual community that brings the best of the University of Chicago to lifelong learners who are seeking discovery and discernment. Through an array of distinctive programs and courses in the Great Books, the liberal arts, and advanced leadership, we welcome learners who seek to deepen their understanding of the world and lead examined lives of purpose. Learn more about the Graham School here: https://graham.uchicago.edu/