How Olivia Rodrigo’s Love Songs Became a Breakup Album

Olivia Rodrigo sat down with Joe and Jon for her first in-depth conversation about her new album, “you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love,” out June 12. She discussed the many ways her creative process intersects with the extracurricular noise of pop superstardom, whether its managing relationship drama; accusations of pilfering songwriting gestures from Taylor Swift, her onetime idol; being targeted for the way she dresses; or her willingness to speak up about political and social causes in a way many of her peers won’t. 0:00 Intro! 3:54 Joe & Jon’s SNL fact check 7:34 Rewriting love songs after a breakup 12:35 How Olivia found the right sound for this album 19:49 Olivia’s songwriting process 23:23 Is Olivia ok with being the villain in her songs? 25:22 Cursing less on this album + working with Dan Nigro 30:35 Looking back on “Guts” + having compassion for her younger self 38:59 Joe & Jon’s favorite songs on the album 43:16 The challenge of writing love songs vs. breakup songs 47:05 Olivia’s thoughts on artists speaking out politically 50:41 Why Olivia did not attend this year’s Met Gala 52:26 How she reacts to “internet detective work” 54:10 Olivia responds to the babydoll dress controversy 56:13 Valuing her young fan base and girlhood as a shared experience 1:03:31 Olivia guesses which SATC characters Joe and Jon are 1:05:59 Popcast’s Lightning Round on her childhood, experiencing jealousy, and identifying as a “fan girl” 1:22:00 Snack Time! (with an allegedly shelf-stable dip) Follow Jon: https://twitter.com/joncaramanica https://www.instagram.com/joncaramanica Follow Joe: https://twitter.com/joecoscarelli https://www.instagram.com/joecoscarelli/ Listen to every Popcast ever https://www.nytimes.com/popcast Every episode of Popcast (Deluxe) on YouTube https://tinyurl.com/PopcastDeluxe Popcast Discord! https://tinyurl.com/PopcastDiscord Popcast Facebook! https://tinyurl.com/PopcastFacebook Popcast t-shirts & stickers http://itsthepopcast.myshopify.com Subscribe: http://bit.ly/U8Ys7n More from The New York Times Video: http://nytimes.com/video