Carlo Rovelli: Love and Quantum Physics are the Same | The Futurology Podcast

Subscribe to Futurology! https://linkin.bio/futurology/ We treat the self as bedrock. But look closely, and the ground gives way. Over the last century, quantum physics has systematically dismantled the illusion of a constant, solid material reality. A particle has no properties until it meets another. A color lives in the meeting of object and eye, not in the object. The self may be the same. Not a thing you carry, but something that happens between you and everyone else. In this episode, physicist Carlo Rovelli takes the relational thinking behind his physics and turns it on consciousness. The question we treat as deepest, what the self is, is the wrong question. A riddle with no answer. The self is not an illusion. It’s just made of everything around it. Your family, friends, partner, even enemies. Take the relations away, and there’s no there there. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 Mentioned in this Episode: White Holes — Carlo Rovelli (Book, 2023) https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/724426/white-holes-by-carlo-rovelli/ The Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way: Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika — Nagarjuna, translated by Jay L. Garfield (Book, 1995) https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-fundamental-wisdom-of-the-middle-way-9780195093360 The Complete Works of Zhuangzi — translated by Burton Watson (Book, 2013) https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-complete-works-of-zhuangzi/9780231164740/ Duino Elegies & The Sonnets to Orpheus — Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Stephen Mitchell (Book, 1923) https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/154356/duino-elegies-and-the-sonnets-to-orpheus-by-rainer-maria-rilke-edited-and-translated-by-stephen-mitchell/ Chapters (0:00) Introduction (0:57) How Carlo Fell in Love With Quantum Mechanics (6:37) The Unfinished Problem of Quantum Gravity (12:21) Why Love and Electrons Are Made of the Same Stuff (15:34) Flipping the Hard Problem of Consciousness (25:32) How Different Cultures Conceived of Consciousness (32:10) A Relational Way of Understanding Quantum Mechanics (44:48) How Nagarjuna's Emptiness Relates to Quantum Physics (50:13) Defining the Illusion of the “Self” (54:34) Finding Meaning in Pure Physics (1:04:55) Why Time Flows in Only One Direction Where to Find Carlo Rovelli: Academic homepage https://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/ Centre de Physique Théorique https://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/ X (Twitter): @carlorovelli https://x.com/carlorovelli Berggruen Institute profile https://berggruen.org/people/carlo-rovelli Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute https://www.berggruen.org Follow Futurology! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurologypod Twitter/X: https://www.x.com/futurologypod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@futurologypod Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/berggrueninst LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/berggrueninst Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/futurologypod.bsky.social Credits Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson (50:13) Defining the Illusion of the “Self” (54:34) Finding Meaning in Pure Physics (1:04:55) Why Time Flows in Only One Direction