The Man Driving the Nationalist Revival on the Right | The Ezra Klein Show

Vice President JD Vance gave a speech recently that deserved more attention than it got. Accepting an award at a right-wing think tank, he argued that there’s a fundamental brokenness in how we define who is an American. He explained that this is the root of many of our country’s problems: a national identity that has become too broad. That was also a core idea of the 2018 book “The Virtue of Nationalism,” which caused a sensation on the right. Its author, the Israeli political theorist Yoram Hazony, went on to build a movement. For years, he has hosted NatCon — short for National Conservatism — conferences. Those events have featured speakers like Marco Rubio, who is now the secretary of state, and Senator Josh Hawley. And one of the most reliable speakers, year after year, has been Vance. I wanted to talk to Hazony. What exactly is his argument, his worldview? And are the Trump administration’s policies putting it into practice? 0:00 Intro 8:38 What is a nation? 18:00 The future that NatCons fear 25:00 A history of division 30:00 ‘Who are you arguing with?’ 37:14 The ‘kooky Nazi right’ 44:41 ‘MAGA is a very broad alliance’ 49:25 Why Vance matters 55:04 The sources of ‘cohesion’ 1:03:43 What is multiculturalism? 1:11:03 Rebuilding ‘a dominant center’ 1:15:03 NatCons and tolerance 1:18:02 Book Recommendations Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/01/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-yoram-hazony.html Watch more on @EzraKleinShow Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html