The Golden Cage: Former Xero Design Director Lee Young on Leaving Tech for Art Therapy

Former Xero Product Design Director Lee Young spent 20 years in design before retraining as a creative arts therapist. He now works with neurodivergent children and hospice patients, using clay, pastels, and drama to reach emotions that words cannot. We discuss the illusion of corporate safety, why detours are necessary, and why 'design is creating for others, art is creating for yourself'. - 00:00 Intro: Lee made a choice most of us think about but rarely make - 00:52 Monday mornings now vs as a designer - 01:12 The 20-year detour: web design → product → leadership → coaching → art therapy - 03:00 Was the career counsellor's advice a wrong turn? - 04:30 Trust your gut at each stage - 05:20 What transferred: Double Diamond ≈ coaching process - 07:30 Freelancer skills that most therapists don't have - 08:20 Corporate salary as a runway for career change - 09:50 The first weeks after leaving: freedom or void? - 11:20 Golden cage: high salary makes it hard to leave - 14:00 The illusion of corporate job security - 15:50 Freelancing gives you more transparency and control - 17:00 Creativity in corporate vs agency vs independent work - 18:30 'Design is creating for others. Art is creating for yourself.' - 20:00 Creativity and play share the same root - 22:00 Xero Design Jam: the most fun project was in month one - 23:00 What is art therapy? Using things other than words - 26:00 Pastels, clay, twigs, drama, dance: all languages - 27:30 An art therapist is a guide, not a fixer - 28:30 The woman who filled a page with yellow pastel for an hour - 30:30 The six-year-old throwing clay at a tree - 33:00 Measuring impact: why CBT gets funded and art therapy struggles - 36:00 How therapists maintain their own wellbeing - 38:00 Systemic challenges for neurodivergent children - 41:00 Working with adults vs children: adults have more wiggle room - 42:00 Hospice work: a privilege and an honour - 44:00 Presence is a rare commodity - 46:00 Anxiety lives in the past and future; presence anchors you - 48:00 Neurographic drawing: a 5-10 minute stress release - 50:00 The simplest reset: face the sun, close your eyes, two minutes - 51:00 Mini nature therapy: prioritise touch, sound, smell over sight - 53:00 What's next: peer supervision training + psilocybin-assisted therapy - 55:00 Dr Fee Caracott and NZ's first psilocybin prescriptions - 56:00 Possibly returning to Whitecliffe as a guest lecturer - 57:00 'Enjoying beginner's mind, not rushing to the next step' 👋 Hi! I’m Bear, a Product Designer, 10-year+ podcaster, and author of two books. Passionate about design, tech, productivity, and learning AI at https://bearwith.AI Stay updated! Subscribe to my newsletter at newsletter.bearwith.ai. • Website: bearwith.ai • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bearliu • Twitter: twitter.com/bearbig